Process Talk: Jo Ellen Bogart on Anthony and the Gargoyle
Anthony and the Gargoyle is a picture book with layers of story—and no words. There’s the story of the boy and his favorite rock. The elderly aunt in Paris. The hatching egg. Even the passage of time seems to carry its own weight. But unlike many wordless picture books by author-illustrators, this one's written by Jo Ellen Bogart and illustrated by Maja Kastelic.
I love wordless books, but this one spoke to me in an unusual way, urging me to unpack the form. I asked Jo Ellen if she'd tell me more.
[Uma] Where and how did you find the ideas that ended up becoming this book? What were the seeds? How did they grow?
[Jo Ellen] It is interesting to ponder the origins of a story. Perhaps some authors think of the reasons for writing a story before they start, or as they build the story. I am not sure I did that. I had been interested in gargoyles, or grotesques, as they are more correctly called, for many years. I often look up to see what characters might be perched high up on buildings.
If I had reasons for writing this book, they might be hidden from me. I did move a lot as a child and this might have taught me that things change.
[Uma] That rings very true to me, that we unearth our stories from lived experience and don’t always know where in the past they might have come from.
[Jo Ellen] Sometime in the past, an idea had come to me of a boy and a rock that hatched into a baby gargoyle. I also had been thinking of how much I enjoyed wordless books and books whose illustrations are split into sections on some pages and are whole on other pages. This variety is exciting and can be surprising.
On a drive home from Toronto, these various ideas seemed to crash together and I began to think of the story of a boy and a rock that was like an egg and the amazing creature that came into his life. After thinking of this, I just wondered what would happen. Would they be friends? Would the baby gargoyle live with him? Would it ever get back to where it came from, and where was that? I had been in Paris in 2008 and made a point of seeing the wonderful gargoyles at Notre Dame Cathedral. Of course, that was where the baby gargoyle should come from, but how did it get to Anthony's home? These were more details to work out, but they came quickly. The story rolled out of my head like a movie with details of his parents' honeymoon in Paris, or the broken stone on Anthony's bedside table. I asked myself questions and the answers came. I seldom had to backtrack and make changes.
The big decision was whether Anthony would return the baby gargoyle to its home. How could this happen and could Anthony give up his little friend? I never conceived of him not doing this, really. The letter about the sick aunt provided the chance to return the little gargoyle, since it took the family to Paris.
When my drive home was over, I quickly wrote down the steps of the story. I described scenes that I felt would allow the "reader" to follow along and understand what was happening. I did more thinking and polishing until I had what I felt was enough to make clear what the story was. I suggested, in the submission to Groundwood, to the wonderful editor, Sheila Barry, that more illustrations would be needed so the story could be experienced in detail, since there were no picture forming words to describe the progression of the story.
I started the descriptions with a series of photographs in a family album. The illustrator expanded the collection and placed the photos to the wall, a real improvement. The photos help explain persons and events that are the cornerstones of the story. I am still finding tiny treasures in Maja's art.
The publisher decided, very wisely, to include on the inside flap of the dust jacket a few words to set the scene for the story. A synopsis of the story is also included in descriptions in the catalog and on book store web pages, so the reader might go in with some knowledge, but observing and pondering can be a good experience. The book ends with a new photograph on the wall.
I communicated the story by giving these descriptions of settings, actions and emotional details, such as "They become friends and play in his room." The funny thing is that I saw pictures in my head, but did not hear the actors talking. It was like seeing a movie with the sound off. I imagined this story in pictures and illustrator Maja Kastelic brought the characters to life. She showed us a family and we understood from the subtle facial expressions and body language how they lived and how they felt. In a way, the story in illustrations does not tell everything, but leaves some things open to interpretation. Does the little gargoyle learn to talk, or was their communication in some other form? We do not know. Why did Anthony decide to keep the little gargoyle a secret from his parents? I do not know for sure. Is it his special secret?
[UK] Your book reminded me of Beatrice Alemagna’s beautiful Un Lion à Paris/A Lion in Paris. I’m endlessly fascinated by the evocation of place in picture books. I wondered if you can talk about the role of Paris in the book.
[Jo Ellen] The setting of the book in Paris gives the illustrator an opportunity to celebrate a city well known for its beauty. Maja has chosen many places that will be recognized by Parisians and people in many other places. Place names in French add to the feeling of being there, as do the images of well known structures.
I was able to help with one of the illustrations since my memory of climbing the stairs to the balcony to view the gargoyles has stayed with me. The family seemed to move with ease in Paris, perhaps because they had honeymooned there, but also because the aunt lived there. We seem to travel with them through the city.
[UK] When you’re responsible for words in a picture book, you get to work on rounds of edits and copyedits. You see the art in roughs and then you see where perhaps your words are or are not needed. For myself, I’m tweaking words until they tear the last proofs away from me. But wait! No words! So what’s your role as the book develops?
Jo Ellen says this is her favorite image from the book—mine too, I think.
[Jo Ellen] Although there were not editorial discussions regarding a text, there were, from the first, many joint email discussions about the story as laid out in my scene descriptions and interpreted through Maja's illustrations. In early emails, Maja and I talked with our editor about the feelings of the book. I knew from her comments that she understood just what I wanted to communicate. It was so satisfying to see how much we agreed on various elements of the story.
There were several suggestions from Maja that vastly improved the book. I had originally thought of having the family based in North America, but Maja's suggestion of having the family travel to Paris by train was much better. She also thought it would be good to place the story in an earlier time such that news might come by letter. I loved this suggestion. There were also instances in which Maja created very endearing scenes of the two young characters, such as their playing with toy dinosaurs or reading books, or lying on the bed watching falling snow. These were important elements in establishing the relationship. Measuring the baby gargoyle by marking the wall showed the passage of time. I received many email consultations with the editor and Maja and really felt a part of the process, from early roughs, to developing scenes, to final art. I definitely felt a part of the journey.
[UK] Every book teaches the writer something. What did (or does) this book teach you?
Image courtesy of Jo Ellen Bogart
[Jo Ellen] What did this book teach me? I realize that life confronts us with situations that are difficult and decisions that are hard to make. Giving the little gargoyle back to his family would have been hard, so Anthony must have had a strong feeling that it was the right thing to do. How could he make that decision? On what was it based? Was the relationship with his parents what allowed him to understand how the little gargoyle would want to go back to his family?
One thing that I learned was that pictures can, indeed, tell a story. Maja's illustrations are everything I could ask for.They are tender and emotive.The story also reminded me how friendships develop and how they enrich our lives, but also how sometimes we can't stay with the friends we have made. Surely young people are having these experiences and the story might speak to them, as it spoke to me.
Jo Ellen, thank you for this beautiful book and for sharing your insights with me.